Interview excerpts, Len Wilcox with Terri Simmons, June 25, 2019
TS: I’m so glad you could come over. Cookie?
LW: No, thank you. I’ve only got about an hour, Ms. Simmons—
TS: Terri.
LW:—so if we could jump right in …?
TS: Right, okay. So. I told you I used to babysit the girls. That’s a polite fiction. If you babysit, you get paid, right? I was never paid. I didn’t ask to be—make sure you put that in. And it wasn’t charity, don’t call it charity, but …
LW: What was it?
TS: Kindness? It just … happened. The thing is … Wendy was a stay-at-home mom while the girls were young, right? But then, once they started school, she got restless. She was looking for something else. So I’d pick the girls up from school. It’s right over there, so I’d just walk up and bring them back here for cookies and they’d plunk down in front of the television and wait for Wendy to come pick them up or call so I could walk them over.
LW: And you did this for how long?
TS: Longer than necessary, probably. Ollie could’ve started going home alone before they stopped coming. But I think she knew why.
LW: Why …?
TS: Birdy. She couldn’t be left alone. It wasn’t boys—not back then. It was her little friends. I wouldn’t have them over—I refused. The Clark girls, okay, but I wasn’t going to play policewoman for the others. I wouldn’t even have them show up alone. Liza or Carrie or Kendra, I mean. You get them one on one, they’re fine, but even two of them together … that’s when things happened, Mr. Wilcox.
LW: What kinds of things?
TS: Mischief. Pranks. The sorts of things that could get you arrested if you’re an adult, but they were kids. They’d play chicken in the highway—run out in front of cars, trucks, that kind of thing. Dare each other. Egg each other on. You had to egg Birdy on, or else she acted out until you exploded. Adrenaline junkie, maybe. But she was always doing it, or daring the others to do it, and honestly they were terrors. You weren’t supposed to say so, because they were just little girls, but they were. Nobody ever reported them, and they never got in trouble for it. Even that day Birdy broke her arm? We all know what actually happened. Only Randy’s ever bel—shit. Don’t publish that.
LW: I won’t publish anything you don’t want me to.
TS: Right. I just—okay.
LW: Did Wendy have a job? Is that why they needed someplace to go after school?
TS: She never told me where she worked. She was very private. That’s the thing about Wendy—you probably haven’t found many people who can talk about her, right? Because she just didn’t have friends. I’m not even sure she brought the girls to playdates with other kids and talked to the other moms. And … well, shit. I don’t know if I want to say that part either.
LW: You’ll get a transcript and the chance to cross out anything you don’t want me using.
TS: Well, that’s fine, and I’m sure I can trust you, but that doesn’t mean I want you having this in your head while you’re talking to everyone else.
LW: It’s your decision, Terri.
TS: Right. Well. The thing is, you’re not from here, and you don’t understand. Small town. This isn’t Chicago. And … okay. Wendy’s dad had been at her. Incest, to be blunt. It’s why there was so much discussion about Ollie. Not—people weren’t trying to be mean about it, but the timing … there’s not a good way to ask if a baby was born with webbed fingers, but you know what I mean? We were worried about her. If she wasn’t Randy’s, then …
LW: But you didn’t have the kind of relationship with Wendy where you could’ve asked her about that.
TS: God, no. Nobody did. And you wouldn’t have tried if Randy was anywhere nearby. I don’t know if she would’ve told him anyway, but …
LW: How would you describe their relationship? Randy and Wendy?
TS: I hardly ever saw them together. People rarely did, because she didn’t leave the house. She’d come pick the girls up before he got off work, and then the four of them would be together, I guess. Until Birdy started leaving or sneaking out or whatever she did. Evenings were family times, and they had their weekends scheduled. Which you probably know, considering …
LW: The daddy-daughter weekends.
TS: Yeah. But it was still isolating. Just the family. Friends were never invited along for those. Everyone always said it was so nice to see the parents involved like that, especially the dad, but it wasn’t like he was involved where everyone could see. You know?
LW: What do you mean?
TS: Well, he had work, is what I mean. During the day he’d be at work, and then evenings and weekends were family time. So he really tried. Especially with Birdy—he really tried to give her that nuclear family, you know? Some stability. The consistency. She knew—both the girls knew—he was there for them. He made that time.
LW: Did it bother him that his wife was working?
TS: I have no idea. I’d assume no, because any income would be good, and the girls were at school all day. If she needed that extra time after to decompress or go shopping or whatever on those days, I can completely understand. It must have been a shock, Birdy coming along after Ollie like that, because Ollie was such a sweet girl. She got along with everyone. Even Birdy, and that was a trick. But Birdy was so much like her mom. It’s such a pity, them both dying like that, but …
LW: But?
TS: Well. You’re not supposed to say these things. It might’ve been the best for Ollie.
LW: How do you mean?
TS: Less drama for her just as she was getting started in life. Which sounds awful, because her mother and her sister were murdered, and that’s plenty dramatic. But she didn’t have to deal with whatever Birdy came up with next. College in, what was it, California? Maybe taking Jared Chapman out there with her? Booze and drugs and babies of her own, I’m sure. Anything to get all the attention and take it away from Ollie. And their mom gave it—you need to know that. Wendy spent so much of her time dealing with Birdy that Ollie was all but forgotten, especially when they got older. Ollie could be left on her own and nobody worried about her, so they did leave her alone and forget to worry about her. Those daddy-daughter weekends? It wasn’t just Randy trying to get to know his girls. It was trying to force Wendy to pay attention to her older child once a month.
LW: Randy told you that?
TS: Oh, God, no. It was something we just knew. Nobody talks about that kind of thing, Mr. Wilcox. When a husband has to correct his wife. Tell her what we’re all thinking. They just did it, and we all knew why, and this might be something else I cross out when you give me the chance, but we all breathed a sigh of relief when it happened. When we knew we didn’t have to deal with Birdy and Wendy anymore, and that sweet, sweet young woman wouldn’t have to deal with them, either.
Interview excerpts, Len Wilcox with XX, June 25, 2019
XX: So you’re going to keep this anonymous, right? None of your usual descriptions of the person you’re interviewing?
LW: Right. And any information I do use will be credited to an anonymous source.
XX: You probably think that’s stupid. Small town, everybody’ll know who I am. But thank you for meeting in private. I … have a lot to say.
LW: By all means.
XX: I have connections to the prosecuting attorney. Carson Denomie. Well, former prosecuting attorney—he didn’t get the votes last time around. Which is surprising, because he survived the Eli Chapman thing, but … okay. Eli wasn’t Denomie’s top suspect. He was just the one he thought he’d be able to get a conviction for.
LW: … go on.
XX: All right, so let me run this by you: everyone who knew the Clarks knew about their weekend schedules. And it was a big deal that they were doing it again, because Ollie was back from college, so her weekends with each parent mattered. You with me so far?
LW: Yes.
XX: So whoever showed up that night expected to find Ollie home with their mom. You dig?
LW: Walk me through it.
XX: All right, so: he shows up and rings the doorbell. It doesn’t matter which one answers—he’s just going to kill both. So that inner door opens, and he shoots through the screen door. They’re all the same height, so he knows where to aim even if he doesn’t see much more than movement. Not even a silhouette, because she’s backlit, and he gets her in the face, anyway. Maybe he’s too high on adrenaline to even really be thinking, anyway, but then he turns, sees Wendy, and shoots her. In the chest, maybe because she’s further away, or maybe because he’s had an extra moment to look. Both of them dead, so he runs, dumps the gun, and goes back home. Then in the morning he has to fake shock at the news to be like everyone else, except then there’s a bit extra: actually that was Birdy, not Ollie. Ollie’s still alive. He has to see it for himself, and that’s when he breaks.
LW: And “he” is …?
XX: Jared Chapman. Hear me out. You know what Kendra said about money. She’s not the only one who heard that. Birdy’s gang did, so you know her boyfriend did. Say he’s listening to this and thinking hmmm, how can I help my girlfriend? If Ollie were dead, then that would leave her money for Birdy.
LW: I’m not sure that’s how that would’ve worked.
XX: Sure, because you’re a grown man. Sensible. You’re sitting here wondering if Ollie had a will, or if the money would’ve been enough for California. But Jared Chapman? Especially back then? No depth. Birdy’s pissed because Ollie’s got the money, so get rid of Ollie. Which is why it’s so ironic, you know? That he shot Birdy in the face. He steps over her to get a better angle for Wendy, and he doesn’t even know he just killed the wrong sister. They had the same hair. She was in pajamas. Hell, take away the face and all three of the Clark women looked very similar. And the thing is, it was only Birdy at home because Eli had intervened, right? Asked her to stand up for him and all the rest. Which, well … makes me wonder, actually, if maybe Eli knew what his cousin planned to do. If he went ahead and got Ollie out of the way.
LW: So he’d be an accessory.
XX: Sure. And also a kid, so it’s not like he would’ve thought it through. How he could’ve told the truth at any time. Because he would’ve had to say oh, yeah, I totally knew he was going to kill people, so I saved my girlfriend but let him kill her sister and her mom. Sorry, honey. Miscalculated that one.
LW: So …
XX: I know, I know. We’re still left with the same problem they had with Eli: what about the gun? Where did he get it? Where did it go? And we could go with the same answers Denomie presented at the trial. Yes, it would’ve been possible for someone to have borrowed a gun from a friend and put it back before it was missed. We’ve got enough people who don’t lock up their stuff, and in June? They probably aren’t checking on it daily. If it’s in the basement, it’s in the basement. And if there’s a window into the basement, or they don’t lock their doors … which happens around here. Anyone could go in and get the gun, especially if they know where it is. And it’s a shotgun—you don’t need to be a sharpshooter. They got Eli, sure, but they didn’t get Jared and ask him to strip. See if he had a bruise on his shoulder, that kind of thing. They had Jared all wide-eyed saying no, Eli wasn’t with me all night, and they could run with that. They could use him, even though he backtracked on it, because he didn’t really backtrack. He said hey, Eli wasn’t in the room, that’s all. Like one of those what-do-you-call-thems from Stranger in a Strange Land. The people who’d tell you a house is brown on this side and not assume the other three sides match?
LW: I don’t know that reference.
XX: Heinlein, really? You’re missing out. But Eli said he was there all night, and Jared said he woke up and Eli wasn’t. What they missed was asking Jared if he was there all night. If Eli was telling the truth but Jared was lying. Except it was his girlfriend who’d been shot, so Denomie called a meeting and they had to decide which one was winnable: Jared or Eli? So they voted for Eli. And what’s why he went to trial: because Denomie thought he’d be able to win that one.
Interview excerpts, Len Wilcox with Juho Laitila, June 25, 2019
JL: Good to see you. I couldn’t figure out that Zoom thing—I didn’t want to ask my granddaughter, because she’d want to know why, and then she’d lecture me. Pappa, maybe you’re not a teacher, but … oh, something about decency. When I saw so much, but nobody asks the janitor. I could’ve told them tales if they’d just sworn me in.
LW: Did you go to the prosecutor’s office and tell him you had something to say?
JL: That houkka? No. If he wasn’t smart enough to figure it out himself, then he wasn’t going to listen to me. And the jury came back right. It wasn’t Eli Chapman. That family … they’re no good, the Chapmans, so it’s not a compliment to call Eli the best of the bunch, but that’s what he is. Everything he’s put up with now … and he loved that girl. Ollie. Well, and the thing is, Eli wasn’t the only one like that. Showing up early, staying late … being at school as long as he could because even the empty school was better than home. He wasn’t even looking for someone to want him—just a place to be. He couldn’t always go to Ollie’s, you know. Because of her father.
LW: Randy didn’t like Eli?
JL: What sort of father really likes the boy after his daughter’s virginity? But she loved him, so he had to bend. Just not always. And Randy seemed to forget the sort of boy he’d been himself. Worse than Eli Chapman, I tell you. Randy was spoiled and Randy was mean. More like his younger daughter. You couldn’t tell either of them no, which may or may not have had something to do with his shotgun wedding. I couldn’t say. But what I can tell you is that Eli was probably only the second person in the world who loved Birdy, after Ollie. Because she loved Birdy. And he would’ve known, that kid, that killing Birdy wouldn’t have helped a thing. There wasn’t money, there wasn’t jealousy … Denomie and his idea that Eli wanted to chain Ollie down? Paska. Eli Chapman always ever only wanted the best for Ollie Clark, even if the best wasn’t him. It just happened to be.
LW: Oh?
JL: Ah, the two of them. So in love. It doesn’t always work, when one goes off to college and the other stays to home, but I think they were going to make it work. Or they would have, if not for Denomie. I guess they’re engaged now, finally, but there shouldn’t have been this delay. That poor boy …
LW: Mr. Laitila, have you seen the news?
JL: Which news, son? There’s a lot of it.
LW: Sean Kelly has an alibi for the night Wendy and Birdy Clark were murdered. He didn’t do it.
JL: No? Huh. Are they sure?
LW: Yes. So I was wondering if you had any idea who might have done it.
JL: Who would’ve wanted to kill Wendy and Birdy?
LW: Yes. Did you think it was someone back then?
JL: A drifter. I mean, God rest their souls, I could name a person or two who’d have something against them, but not to kill. Hitto, the girl was going away. She was done with school, done with this place … nobody had to get rid of her. She was ready to get rid of herself. And the mother, Wendy? Hardly anyone ever saw her. Who’s going to make enemies when she never leaves the house? It was a drifter. Somebody lost, confused … although I’ll tell you something, poika, if you can keep a secret.
LW: The recorder is running, but you’ll be able to review the transcript and tell me if you don’t want me using something.
JL: Ah, yes, you said. Well. It might have been a blessing for Jared Chapman. The two of them together, Jared and Birdy, were a bad idea. Worse than flint and steel. They were going to explode, and who knows how many they would’ve taken out when that happened. But she was killed, bless her soul, and he straightened up. Even helped Eli out. Stood by him when his own mother did nothing but drink. Eli needed someone, she wasn’t there, and he couldn’t have Ollie, not after all that. So Jared stepped in, and he’s never stopped insisting Eli was innocent.
LW: Even though he said—?
JL: He said he woke up that night and Eli wasn’t there, yes, I know. You couldn’t go three steps back then without someone mentioning it. But it wasn’t like he said “I woke up and saw Eli coming back to bed all covered in blood,” or “I woke up and Eli was sitting there crying because he’d just killed people.” Perkele! Denomie stressed that, and he couldn’t get a conviction. Because it means nothing! One boy wakes up, another’s not there … that doesn’t mean the other’s out killing someone. You’re not a very good detective if you think.
LW: I’m not a detective, Mr. Laitila. I’m a reporter.
JL: Well, then. Go on and report that Eli didn’t do it.
Interview excerpts, Len Wilcox with Esther Chapman, June 25, 2019
EC: I don’t expect you to understand. You’re a man. Men are the ones who do the leaving. They don’t even have to stick around long enough to find out if you’re pregnant—they can just fuck you and go. Thank you ma’am and out the door. Lonnie married me, sure, but how long did that last? He left me, and he even hung around here for a while, but not around me. Not around Eli. And then he took off completely, and I have no idea where he is. I didn’t hear a peep from him back then, either. Son’s on trial for murder and he can’t even bother. The papers loved that. Tried tracking him down, but they couldn’t manage it, either. I don’t even know if I’m still married.
LW: You never hired a lawyer to—?
EC: Look, Mr. Wilcox, maybe that’s what you city people do, but how was I going to pay for a lawyer? I had to take charity as it was. Left on my own with a boy, no family … Serena’s all high and mighty about it now, but she certainly didn’t offer anything. She got lucky with work, but I got lucky with Eli. Yes, fine, everyone wants to say he was an angry kid, but who wouldn’t be? His dad left us. Abandoned us. I was working two jobs to keep a roof over our heads, but the roof leaked, and clothes on his back, but they were all second-hand ones he didn’t like. It’s hard for a kid to be angry at someone who’s gone, so he was angry at me for sticking around but doing everything wrong. Except Eli never hit me. He never let it out the way some guys do—throwing things or punching things to let you know that they could lay their hands on you. When it gets too much for Eli, he goes for a walk, or splits firewood, or gets it all out with something that doesn’t hurt anyone. Something productive. Which, I’m sad to say, can’t be said for Jared.
LW: What do you mean?
EC: I mean Serena might’ve gotten rid of an abusive man, but she was stuck with an abusive boy. Jared would kick and hit and just flail when he was younger, and then he started aiming. It went past the point where you could say oh, he’s just a kid, he doesn’t know any better. He knew better, but she defended him anyway. She’d have a black eye and tell you she ran into a door, that kind of thing. And she was so damn holier than thou about not dating men, not bringing them into little Jared’s life just to have them leave again, but she was the one with shiners. Not me. And of course she felt all smug when Eli got arrested. Her little angel wouldn’t have done a single thing. He was home all night. She even preened because he’s the reason the police pounced on Eli. Isn’t that a good word? Preened.
LW: It is a good word.
EC: And it’s the right word. She showed up to that trial every day in that one suit. You know what it was like? That Simpsons episode where Marge finds that designer thing at a thrift store and then wears it all the time to get into the country club. Except this wasn’t a country club. She wanted to be there with her makeup done because it made me look worse. And she didn’t even say anything to me. Just showed up, sat there between me and Jared, and stared straight ahead. No help. No comfort. In case you wondered which Chapman wife got the good kid and which one got the murderer. Even though it should’ve been the other way around. Eli should’ve married Ollie years ago. The two of them … I raised a good man, Mr. Wilcox. Or maybe he turned out good in spite of me. But they lost ten whole years, and Jared took that away from them. A single thoughtless comment, and Jared made sure Eli couldn’t ask her to marry him, that they couldn’t have kids. They couldn’t have the life they deserved.
LW: I understand Eli proposed last Christmas.
EC: Yes, he did. It was lovely. But he should’ve done it years ago, except public opinion made him a murderer. That not guilty verdict? It ruined Eli’s life. Everyone’s decided they have to punish him because the state didn’t, so it’s all up to them. But now? They think sorry’s enough. They spent years abusing my kid, cutting him off, laughing at him … and they think they can just laugh it off and not take responsibility.
LW: Responsibility.
EC: Yes, of course. They ignored the verdict. They chose to act the way they did. They ruined his life. And now they want to just laugh and say “Let bygones be bygones” because otherwise it means facing consequences for those actions, and consequences means they did the wrong thing. They’re all convinced they did the right thing, Mr. Wilcox. That Eli got what he deserved, just because he’s a Chapman. Just because I didn’t handle myself the way Serena did. I didn’t fake it for them well enough, so it serves my son right. That’s how they’re thinking. And they won’t ever want to say they were wrong.
Bury the Dead 14 – coming April 14